I've never heard these called sand dune stamps or wallpaper
They are called sand-dunes as they were originally issued by primarily the Arabian States or Sheikdoms like: Ajman; Fujeira; Ras Al Khama; Sharjah; Yemen; Manama etc. Ironically, they were issued for collectors, most of whom shun them as 'wallpaper', and not really for postage . Some of us collect them never the less. There are examples on cover, but these are rare and usually expensive.
I did have a thread on them on the old board but it may have got lost in the transfer...or at least I cannot find it using the 'search' facility.
I've never heard these called sand dune stamps or wallpaper
Is it just the Mahra State that you haven't heard called Sand Dunes/Wallpaper or you hadn't heard of Sand Dunes in general?
I've never heard of any stamps called Sand Dunes. I have some of these but I don't collect them. They're sitting in cigar boxes with my other ww waiting to go to the club auction.
The term "wallpaper" is used to refer to any large printing of stamps that have questionable or overstated postal validity, and whose main purpose is to be sold to collectors. It is not restricted to a specific country/region.
"Sand dunes" refers to the stamps issued by the Trucial States during the late 1960s through early 1970s. The term is not used as often as it once was, for good reason. The term is considered a bit derogatory and obviously it is intentionally demeaning. And while it may have been funny at one time and "self-explanatory" when you saw which sheikdoms were issuing the stamps, it still does have its origins in ignorance and arrogance (I realize that most of us weren't there when the philatelic terms were coined, so I'm not saying we are responsible for this ignorance/arrogance). The Trucial States have been trying for decades to shake off the stereotype image, and their rise in prominence in the oil and finance sectors have helped considerably. But in the stamp collecting world, much of the stigma still sticks.
You will notice in almost all the major auction catalogs, they are not called "dunes". Major US auction catalogs typically will formally refer to them as Trucial States in the listing. However, a lot of the remaining old-time dealers will still casually refer to them as "dunes" in conversation.
Post by cyberbeast on Nov 14, 2013 17:30:10 GMT -5
i'm sorry if my comments offend someone, but to me its more of stereotype or arrogance of west to from few big one (in term of philately) that whatever they don't like they don't collect it and also create 'TERMS' that might hurt these small states who trying hard to put some impact on world map. but its actually kind of irritating for me or collectors like me, who just want to collect every stamp.
I don't think anybody here is offended, and I don't see any need to apologize. Like you, I like to collect all the stamps, regardless of what someone may call it. I've been mocked for that on more than one occasion. It comes with the territory of being an accumulator.
I was trying to give some background regarding the term. Most of us "non-whites" just shrug off stereo-typical terms/comments and most collectors don't intentionally mean any harm in using the terms. But we should probably still be aware of the background of the term. I don't believe in censorship, but I do believe that being informed help us become wiser in making stamp purchases and in our interactions with others.
I really don't see why the term "sand-dune" is derogatory per se, but I guess one can become irritated by just about anything. The term refers to a certain geographical area where these stamps were primarily issued; and issued with no intention that they be used for postage. In fact a large portion have a printed cancellation at the time of issue.
One of the problems with these issues is that they are not only printed for revenue collection alone, but also most are badly printed and have subjects that have nothing to do with the country of origin - most are pretty ugly. Now take, for example, another country that issues stamps for revenue, Bhutan, their stamps are much more attractive, the numbers printed are not astronomical and hence a lot of collectors favour them. AND Bhutan has no other source of income to speak of, they have no oil.
Also, the term was coined at a time when most issuing bodies were still issuing stamps just for postage and so the 'sand-dunes' stood out and so attracted disfavour. It would not happen today as many more countries have got onto the band wagon, not least my own: Australia with over 200 issues per year!
I don't think anybody here is offended, and I don't see any need to apologize. Like you, I like to collect all the stamps, regardless of what someone may call it. I've been mocked for that on more than one occasion. It comes with the territory of being an accumulator.
I was trying to give some background regarding the term. Most of us "non-whites" just shrug off stereo-typical terms/comments and most collectors don't intentionally mean any harm in using the terms. But we should probably still be aware of the background of the term. I don't believe in censorship, but I do believe that being informed help us become wiser in making stamp purchases and in our interactions with others.
Enjoy your stamps -- ALL of them!
k
I don't think the background of theses has anything to do with race, colour or religion...just issuing practice at that time.
I respectfully disagree. "Wallpaper" refers to the practice. The term "sand dunes" is used to refer to a specific region. As I noted, you would instantaneously understand the phrase once you saw the issuing entity. There aren't many other regions/areas with a similar colorful name to take the place of the phrase "wallpaper". Some of the old-timers (at least here in the US) would add additional colorful phrases to the term "sand dunes", which I will not repeat here. "Wallpaper" is typically used to express humor or disdain of the stamps. But back then "sand dunes" was often used disdainfully not only of the stamps, but of the sheikdoms as well.
As I noted, nobody here (and very few collectors in general) uses the term to be intentionally mocking. But that is not the way it was.
I'm not from the Middle East, and I am not personally offended by the term. I've used it before as well. But the coining of the term "sand dunes" is not the same as the coining of the word "wallpaper". Just giving the background. My observation/opinion.
1 - historically this term may have been in use in a derogatory way and appears to have up set some members (yes even members who have not participated in this thread)
and
2 - most collectors today (and i think in this case especially) are referring to a geographical phenomenon and not the people of the region.
Unfortunately due to the nature of this site being open to all at times even an innocent appearing phrase to one member, may well be offensive to another. take for example my use fo the word "kid" in my region if you call some one "kid" (regardless of age) it is a term of endearment. i once called a member "kid" who was 50 years old and he got so offended that he has never returned to Stamp Bears. kind of silly in my eyes.
communication (asking questions) is one of the best ways to clarify a persons meaning and perception of the language they use.
i am really impressed that all members on both sides of this debate have attempted to keep it a civil discussion and not bring forward comments that would violate the rules of Stamp Bears. With this said we need to find a term that would work for all.. "wall paper" is one term, "CTO" brings in to many variables, and the "Sand Dune" seems to strike a cord with too many people.
i will also note that at this time we have not censored the use of this term (personally i think its a communication error) however if used to refer to anything other than stamps i will be hard pressed to let it pass.
Post by zepherusbane on Nov 15, 2013 8:43:12 GMT -5
I would have to say I'm very surprised to find out about any negative connotations around the term. I only learned of the term myself a few months ago on the old Stamp Bears boards and I had the feeling from those discussions that it was an accepted normal term or I never would have used it to begin with. I had no clue there was any controversy around the term.
Worldwide collector of stamps and covers! I gave up on limiting to only certain countries.
take for example my use fo the word "kid" in my region if you call some one "kid" (regardless of age) it is a term of endearment. i once called a member "kid" who was 50 years old and he got so offended that he has never returned to Stamp Bears.
How true and odd that simple terms of endearment can sometimes be construed as offensive. The reverse is also true. Phrases I once thought were mean-spirited turned out to be terms of endearment for some people.
For example, I never realized that "dummy" was a term of endearment until I got married and my wife used it frequently in speaking to me.
Post by cyberbeast on Nov 15, 2013 17:48:32 GMT -5
btw, i wasn't referring to any my member, my forum's family members actually, but to those who just separate things from others, like they are not as normal as rest. and actually you can find that kind of behavior in all around the world, like i faced when i ask a dealer about Israel stamps. for me if your hobby can't bring others, closer to u then its not even a hobby.
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